Author Topic: Rolling a miss on a PvP move  (Read 2187 times)

onrigato

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Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« on: December 23, 2016, 08:57:34 PM »
So let's say Marie (a PC) wants her violation glove back from Birdie (another PC), so she punches her in the face (seize by force) but rolls a miss. As MC, how would you handle this? If Birdie were an NPC I'd get to say what she does (like turn Marie's move back on her), but that doesn't feel right in this case. Same for go aggro. 


Ebok

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Re: Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2016, 09:47:12 PM »
These things aren't one sided. When the playerA decides to against playerB, A says what they do, and B says how they try to respond. Both roll and the fiction is determined pretty straight forwardly. If for whatever reason the other player wasnt attempting to prevent this from happening (rolling interfere) then I'm not sure why the roll occurred at all, since A would just touch B.

Dismissing your example, and going into the heart of the matter though. Why not? If one character tries to do something to another and fails miserably, it should be rather clear what the implications of that are. If they try to punch someone else in the face, and that person was actively fighting back (the only reason seize by force is appropriate.) The person that tried and failed, Lost. Describe to them how and turn the situation so they cannot just "try again". In this case, they might be pinned on the ground with their gloved hand hard into the dirt.

Again though, the key here is to find out what both parties are doing before Any rolls are made. What this does is declare what's happening. If they both fail miserably, then you are free to make a hard move against them both, or have both of their moves backfire in a way where neither of the aims are successful.

noclue

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Re: Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2016, 10:03:17 PM »
You know, it's possible to hurt yourself sucker punching people in the face. Although, I'd be tempted to just say "So Birdie, we hear a resounding thwack as Marie just hails off and hits you in the face. That's gotta sting a bit. What do you do?"
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

DeadmanwalkingXI

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Re: Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 12:01:13 AM »
The above advice is all valid, but bear in mind that MC moves on a miss also don't have to follow directly from the action in question. If the MC has prepped that Dremmer and his goons are after the PCs, a missed roll could trigger you announcing future badness with the sound of their trucks coming up. Or just about any other 'random' event you like that's consistent with the world as established.

Zwolfe124

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Re: Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 12:10:18 AM »
Also remember that the other PC should be interfering or attempting their own move. If it's seize by force then player of Birdie should be able to make the same roll.

Take a look at page 169 in your apocalypse hymnal for a good example of how pc vs pc moves should be covered

Ebok

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Re: Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2016, 06:54:20 AM »
It should probably also be mentioned that if the player went and took the violation glove, so long as it is reasonable in the fiction for them to be anywhere near each other... touching them probably isn't hard / isn't even a move. It certainly isn't an exchange of harm, maybe at best it's a cool roll for the other person not to notice before hand, but really? touching? Unless he's already hyper vigilant against it, it's almost certainly just happens. What the roll should be in the deep brain scan versus them interfering with that, and then the resulting: "wtf are you doing!!" and snowball from that.


DeadmanwalkingXI

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Re: Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2016, 07:08:42 AM »
It should probably also be mentioned that if the player went and took the violation glove, so long as it is reasonable in the fiction for them to be anywhere near each other... touching them probably isn't hard / isn't even a move. It certainly isn't an exchange of harm, maybe at best it's a cool roll for the other person not to notice before hand, but really? touching? Unless he's already hyper vigilant against it, it's almost certainly just happens. What the roll should be in the deep brain scan versus them interfering with that, and then the resulting: "wtf are you doing!!" and snowball from that.

Two things:

1. The example is not actually touching someone with a violation glove. It's punching them in the face because they stole your violation glove.

2. The above is only true if they don't know the person touching them is a Brainer with a violation glove. As soon as anyone figures out that people Sundown touches are having weird shit happen to them (and that's potentially real obvious real quick if they ever miss on one of the appropriate moves), people are gonna start being really reluctant to let Sundown touch them unless they really trust Sundown.

And if people are actively avoiding Sundown touching them, some sort of move is necessary to force them to allow it. Seize By Force would definitely work, Going Aggro or Manipulating them would also work (in very different ways). Acting Under Fire might well also work in a 'sneaky' sense.

Ebok

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Re: Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2016, 07:22:11 AM »
Yup.

onrigato

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Re: Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2016, 03:55:53 PM »
Thanks, everyone! That's all really helpful. The example on p. 169 doesn't include a miss result, so I was still unclear on that. But it definitely shows how a PC would fight back against another's SBF.

noclue

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Re: Rolling a miss on a PvP move
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2016, 08:07:30 PM »
You know, it's possible to hurt yourself sucker punching people in the face. Although, I'd be tempted to just say "So Birdie, we hear a resounding thwack as Marie just halls off and hits you in the face. That's gotta sting a bit. What do you do?"
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER