Author Topic: Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated  (Read 2957 times)

Gavinwulf

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Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated
« on: October 27, 2016, 08:50:24 PM »
So I recently picked up Fate Accelerated and noticed some similar themes in design. It looks like FAE was going for a "fiction first" design element in mind like Apocalypse World. There a few things I like about FAE.

—Approaches
—Aspects
—The simplified health/consequence system.

What I don't like about FAE:

—Having a fate point economy
—It's not 'player-facing facing' like AW.
IE, the GM has to stat npcs and make rolls.

So, I had some ideas of mixing the elements I like from FAE into AW.

Approaches, already similar to AW stats:

Bold (Flashy)
Fierce (Forceful)
Patient (Careful)
Quick
Subtle (Sneaky)

I like having only 5 and I think FAE's 'clever' approach is mostly useless as clever things can be covered by careful, flashy, or quick approaches.

These stats are like AW, they would range from -1 to +3 Max.

Next, Aspects. I like the way they concisely capture a character's concept elements. Perhaps in a mostly AW system, pcs may not have as many as five. But my thought was pcs having a few Aspects and a few stunts instead of the traditional playbook moves.
When rolling with an Aspect in play, roll 3d6, keeping the best two if the Aspect helps the pc. Instead of an ubiquitous fate point economy, players can always use their aspects when the situation is applicable. The MC may 'compel' a player by offering an xp point. That's the extent of an ooc 'economy' that I'd want.

Next, Stunts...these would be the most closely associated with playbook Moves.

I would suggest making three Stunts similar to how they're done in FAE. Except in using AW's player-facing dice system, I think these are what should give the 12+ 'Critical hit' advantage where they would modify dice rolls. Otherwise they'd just modify the fiction like trad AW playbook moves.

Well okay, just some ideas I'm playing with. I can't decide if this is FAE w AW's dice mechanic. Or *World w Fate Aspects.

Thoughts?

Paul T.

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Re: Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 10:38:15 PM »
What do the Approaches DO, mechanically? Do you just say you're being Patient now, or is there more to it? This sounds promising to me, but I don't really know, from your post here, what it's going to look like in play.

"Automatic Aspects" sound a bit difficult to me. For starters, an extra die is equivalent to almost +1.5, so you'd have to lower the stat range accordingly.

For instance, someone with a +3 stat and an extra d6 (which, given how Aspects work, would apply more often than not) has less than a 2% chance of rolling a miss.

That messes with the assumptions of AW in a major way, in my opinion.

Gavinwulf

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Re: Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2016, 05:50:23 AM »
Ah, I'm just brainstorming here, grabbing at passing fancies...

So Approaches in Fate Accelerated are 'how' you do something. They are the mains 'stats' that modify the central 4fd (fate dice that average 0) roll in FAE.
In FAE, you would roll "Careful" if you were trying to snipe an enemy with a long-distance precision shot. Or to 'carefully' disarm a trap. A moving shootout with rifles might use the Clever or Quick Approaches.
I swapped "Patient" for "Careful" because I just read Vincent's Freebooting Venus game which uses Patient as a stat.  And I just thought it would delineate it's use better compared to the other stats.

Anyway, thanks for the info about the R&K dice method. I thought the odds were about a plus a +1 but the 2% fail rate for a +3 stat is a little OP.
Perhaps Aspects should just open the +12 crit on a roll. And Stunts/Moves remain relatively unchanged from how the trad playbook moves work. I suppose I was thinking with the goal of having a non-playbook, more free-formed character creation.

As using Approaches and Aspects makes the game more narrative, Stunts would also represent a character's specialty w certain gear, as in FAE. But not all Stunts.
Ex: When the Barbarian fights unarmed or w a Two-handed weapon, he does *???*.
(Haven't gotten to thinking how all this would affect the Harm system yet. In FAE there is no detailed equipment lists with mods, etc. It's all part of the character's Aspects & Stunts.
In vanilla FAE, facing an armed foe while unarmed would let the GM 'compel' a temporary "unarmed" aspect against you. Giving the adversary a bonus to their roll).

FAE's central dice mechanic gives a similar spread to AW: success, success w consequences, fail.
FAE has four 'basic moves':
Overcome, Create an Advantage, Attack, & Defend.

I'm wondering if AW used Aspects and Stunts, the Basic Moves could be similarly reduced. And any Approach might be used with any of those Basic Moves. My goal would be to combine Attack & Defend into one roll like AW's exchanging harm move, to keep the system player-facing and streamlined.

Rubberduck

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Re: Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 11:01:59 AM »
I kinda like the idea, but having GM'd Fate Core (though not Fate Accelerated), I foresee some trouble with an Approach-based.. approach.

In normal AW, a guy with high Hard can use Hard to do the Hard moves. He can use Hard to persuade people. He can't use Hard to Read the Sitch.

But with approaches, I could make a Careful character. And then I could carefully aim at the opponents in a fight. I'd carefully sneak across the compound. I'd carefully survey the situation. I might not be able to carefully manipulate people, but if I could figure out the way, then I'd be able to do most things carefully. There would probably still be situations where I couldn't use careful, but I would still be able to use my high stat much more often than the Hard, normal AW could use his.

That is okay if that is the balance that you are going for (I think Fate Accelerated is), but it needs to be considered.

On other stuff:

Is there any reason to use stunts instead of playbook moves? I personally think that most stunts are just more boring moves, except for the fact that you get to make your own stunts in Fate Accelerated. You could get the same effect by letting players build their own moves (within certain established limits).

For basic moves: Overcome, Create an Advantage, Fight and Move under Fire?

Gavinwulf

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Re: Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2016, 05:24:43 PM »
Rubberduck,

Yes. That's a big criticism leveled at Fate Accelerated Edition with the approaches. And of course players are going to play to their strengths.
But with a mature group, I don't think spamming your best Approach would be a problem. And using a particular Approach means your not focused on the others.
The example I've seen used is picking a lock. Dong it cleverly may open it fast, but leave the lock broken. Picking a lock Carefully may open it and leave it functioning, but it takes time (Sound like 7-9 results).

And yes, I agree w you on Stunts/Player moves. I only wanted to emphasize that stunts could handle gear/weapons as well.

I'm playing w these ideas because I'm trying to find my sweet spot between narrative and simulation games. Obviously if I love AW, I lean into the narrative side of things. But I like the straight simple math of the stats to clearly delineate what a given character is good at.
However, I'm not totally comfortable with the harm system in AW. And so many different moves can feel like it clutters things up.
With Fate Core, I've always felt they ruined a good narrative game w this whole OOC economy of exchanging points, and 'shifting' up and down with their funky dice system.

Paul T.

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Re: Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2016, 08:59:09 PM »
I've fooled around a little with an "Approach"-based system. The idea was that each approach would add a possible consequence to a move you make.

For example:

When you do something *Violently*, add one possible consequence to the outcomes of your move...

* Someone is injured
* Something is broken or destroyed
* You frighten or terrify onlookers

That kind of thing "brings it home" a little more, you know, that your approach *matters*.

You'd have to design all your moves so that they can interface neatly with the approaches, though.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 10:31:18 PM by Paul T. »

Wildfire

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Re: Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2016, 09:50:36 PM »
Something similar sent me on the path to make my ultra light hack, here. Not sure I would do much differently now.

I like AW's dice and results ladder. I like FAE's aspects, stunts, approaches, consequences, and a few other things.

I'm less of a fan of Fate points and altering results after the dice have landed, and the madness of stacking bonuses in Fate long ago lost its luster.

Wambly

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Re: Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 03:01:24 AM »
You may want to read the tabletop gaming design blog of one of the designers of Fate, who also has led campaigns using Dungeon World (a PbtA hack). He's has blogged about Dungeon World and Fate  as well as other systems, and has occasionally pondered crossover elements of Fate and PbtA hacks. I've found his blog helpful and a good read.

http://walkingmind.evilhat.com/

For example, one of his blogs includes a comparison between PbtA moves for the GM and Fate approaches for the GM.

Quote
When I came up with the list of GM approaches, I did not base them on things that GMs can do (that’s a larger list) but rather, I specifically limited them to consequences, with an eye on how to handle the player losing a roll. Things like harm, loss of resources, misinformation and so on are all non-blocking consequences of things going wrong, and the approaches reflect that.

This is a big difference between these and the GM “moves” of the *World games. Moves are much broader and cover things both in and out of conflicts, while approaches are fairly conflict-centric. It would not be impossible to extend the approaches into a set of move equivalents, but you’d need to expand to include things like introducing a fact, foreshadowing the future and so on. Coming up with that list might take a few minutes – less if one wants to just lift the list from Dungeon World – and the bonuses might not be relevant, but that’s probably a subject for some consideration.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 03:31:13 AM by Wambly »

Wambly

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Re: Combining *World w/ Fate Accelerated
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2016, 05:44:32 PM »
A new Apocalypse World hack, City of Mist, combines elements of Apocalypse World and Fate. The setting is super-powered morally gray noir mystery.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1105356930/city-of-mist-a-noir-rpg-of-modern-day-legends