Author Topic: "Fictional triggers" vs. "make your moves when you want"  (Read 610 times)

Rafu

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"Fictional triggers" vs. "make your moves when you want"
« on: October 13, 2016, 11:58:08 PM »
In another topic, Paul asked:
In this earlier conversation, Vincent says that FV is a more "rules-first" game than AW (my words, not his):

http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=7471.0

I'm curious if that's something you've seen in play, or not.
Actually, between my 1st and 2nd session of play, I read most of the threads on this forum, including that one. This one line by Vincent looks especially meaningful:
Freebooting Venus isn't a "fictional triggers" game. Instead, it's all, "here are your moves, make them went you want to."
Knowing this, I really, really try to honor the principle, but I fear I end up only paying lip service to it. Good habits are hard to overcome - and in my case the habit is, when players say, for example, "I interrupt her", I always reply with "Cool! How?"
They know very well, I think, this isn't meant as a "no, you can't", but I'm genuinely asking for their input in making everything as vivid and concrete as possible - especially in case they roll a 6- and I have to come up with something to say.
Since I feel a bit guilty about that, I often remind them verbally that they're entitled to their moves, and similar language. I try to be proactive with such remarks as: "Would you like to Recover Regroup & Prepare, so that you can maybe study the situation and make a plan, perhaps quickly as well, or do you want to just Size Up the situation?"

My players, as well, don't really get this "not a fictional triggers" game. They're used to doing it the other way around. They don't usually name their moves, at all. They tell me "I do this and that", and ask me which move it is. They never go for the dice until it's me who orders them to do so.

lumpley

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Re: "Fictional triggers" vs. "make your moves when you want"
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2016, 01:07:40 AM »
I have some stern words on this topic.

The game's rules don't care who says the name of the players' moves, as long as somebody does. It can be them, it can be you, it doesn't matter a bit.

Same thing with "cool, how?" If a player names a move, it's always acceptable for you to ask for any information that you want, especially to help you visualize what's happening, and especially what the character's concretely doing.

So you're playing it fine. Keep going and don't feel guilty at all.

But the thing is, and here are my stern words: Apocalypse World is EXACTLY THE SAME.

Some people play Apocalypse World the way you describe, with the players saying their characters' actions and the MC naming their moves. This is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE, and NOT THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT.

Apocalypse World, like Freebooting Venus, is not a "fictional triggers" game. Someone else thinks it is, I don't know who, but it's not me, and it's not the game's rules.

-Vincent
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 01:16:35 AM by lumpley »

Rafu

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Re: "Fictional triggers" vs. "make your moves when you want"
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2016, 08:38:24 AM »
Awesome!

Spwack

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Re: "Fictional triggers" vs. "make your moves when you want"
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2016, 02:56:07 PM »
As someone who is really interested and has no idea what is going on, I feel that Vincent (do you ever get called Vince?) said something really important and profound. Translation plz.

lumpley

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Re: "Fictional triggers" vs. "make your moves when you want"
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2016, 07:58:07 PM »
Hm. I'll see what I can do.

You know how in Apocalypse World, as MC, you make your moves but don't name them? Like, instead of saying "I separate you," you say "Dremmer drags you, Barbecue, into the shed, and Rolfball drags you, Burroughs, the other way, into the garage"?

Have you heard that in Apocalypse World, the players aren't supposed to name their moves either, they're supposed to say what they do, and the MC is supposed to tell them what move to roll?

If you haven't: Cool. It's not true, but some people think it is.

If you have: It's not true, even though some people think it is.

You can play that way if you want, if you can still communicate clearly that way. But the rules presume that you'll name your own moves, not rely on the MC to guess them.

-Vincent