Author Topic: New Rules For Having Two Classes: Input Desired.  (Read 7920 times)

J. Trudel

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Re: New Rules For Having Two Classes: Input Desired.
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2013, 01:29:42 AM »

It's not automatic, because they are losing experience to gain the moves, and therefore falling behind characters who don't do so immediately in levels, which hurts them in stats, and especially if they are spellcasters.

The problem with your alternative suggestion, for my desires, is that I *want* the players to have more moves.  I want them to be able to be two classes fully, given enough experience and fiction development, without sacrificing their higher level moves.  Ultimately, a "maxed out" character under the system I'm suggesting here, would have the basic moves of two classes, and a total of 12 (instead of 9) advanced move picks.  It would take him a total of 50 additional experience points to reach that "maxed out" point than a standard character.

Another comparison, is that the same amount of experience would get you to be a 10th level character without taking a secondary class, or to be a 7th level character with a mastered secondary class (technically, a few experience points short of 7th level).  So, it's not "for free".

Usually a character needs Level + 7 Xp to gain a new move (and a level). If the character lose Xp to gain a move (or a level), isn't it just easier to let him gain a Level ? You may allow characters to go at a higher level than 10 if you truly need a character with more moves. Why wanting to work with a different system when the one in place does the job ? If your character have more moves than other characters, I think it's just fair to let him be at a higher level since he will obviously be more efficient or at least more versatile than another character with a fewer moves.

So I don't see any troubles allowing for higher level characters with more move and a more flexible multi-classing system.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 01:33:57 AM by J. Trudel »

rudy

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Re: New Rules For Having Two Classes: Input Desired.
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2013, 01:44:32 AM »

It's not automatic, because they are losing experience to gain the moves, and therefore falling behind characters who don't do so immediately in levels, which hurts them in stats, and especially if they are spellcasters.

The problem with your alternative suggestion, for my desires, is that I *want* the players to have more moves.  I want them to be able to be two classes fully, given enough experience and fiction development, without sacrificing their higher level moves.  Ultimately, a "maxed out" character under the system I'm suggesting here, would have the basic moves of two classes, and a total of 12 (instead of 9) advanced move picks.  It would take him a total of 50 additional experience points to reach that "maxed out" point than a standard character.

Another comparison, is that the same amount of experience would get you to be a 10th level character without taking a secondary class, or to be a 7th level character with a mastered secondary class (technically, a few experience points short of 7th level).  So, it's not "for free".

Usually a character needs Level + 7 Xp to gain a new move (and a level). If the character lose Xp to gain a move (or a level), isn't it just easier to let him gain a Level ? You may allow characters to go at a higher level than 10 if you truly need a character with more moves. Why wanting to work with a different system when the one in place does the job ? If your character have more moves than other characters, I think it's just fair to let him be at a higher level since he will obviously be more efficient or at least more versatile than another character with a fewer moves.

So I don't see any troubles allowing for higher level characters with more move and a more flexible multi-classing system.
The answer to that question is that I want specialized spellcasters to be better at spellcasting than the multiclassed ones.  Since spellcasting is based upon level, the fact that your level doesn't advance when mastering a second class is pretty essential to this.

J. Trudel

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Re: New Rules For Having Two Classes: Input Desired.
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2013, 03:24:15 AM »

The answer to that question is that I want specialized spellcasters to be better at spellcasting than the multiclassed ones.  Since spellcasting is based upon level, the fact that your level doesn't advance when mastering a second class is pretty essential to this.

If you take the spell-casting for example at Level 3, and your character is now level 6, he cast spells only as a 3rd level caster. This is already in the rules, so your multi-class caster is less powerful than another. If on the other hand you are a Wizard and chose moves from another class, then I am a full spell caster from 1st level however, the fact I didn't take the moves allowing a better spell-casting favoring a multi-class leave me a somewhat poorer spell-caster than if I did take them.

One way or another, your spell-cast IS a better spell-caster if he is only one class.

rudy

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Re: New Rules For Having Two Classes: Input Desired.
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2013, 03:38:48 AM »
One way or another, your spell-cast IS a better spell-caster if he is only one class.
The difference is too marginal for my tastes; the vast majority of your spellcasting power comes from just the basic spellcasting move and your level.  It's the earlier access to the more powerful spells which really starts altering the face of the game; most of the advanced moves around spellcasting are just frosting, the best (in my opinion) being the Cleric's Serenity tree, allowing the ignoring of ongoing -1s for maintenance.

The warrior-mage build is pretty over powered using the standard rules, actually.  (I'm thinking dex-based elf fighter (for always precision weapon racial move) > takes wizard casting at level 2, at level 7 he has +3 Dex and Int, giving him +3 for Hack and Slack, Volley, casting.  He's ridiculously armored after he grabs Arcane Ward with Multiclass Initiate, casts as a 6th level wizard, and hits like a truck (probably 1d10+1d8 base damage presuming you've chosen Merciless > Bloodthirsty.)

I actually think once I finalize and implement this system, I'm going to disallow the Fighter from picking up spellcasting with his "Multiclass Dabbler".  It's just too powerful.  The fighter is the only one I think it's a problem for, though: it makes sense for the Bard to grab it, and it fits better both power-wise and thematically.  The rest of the classes don't have multiclass moves at 2-5, I don't think.  The Ranger and the Paladin have their special cleric spells move, which is fine and thematic.

J. Trudel

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Re: New Rules For Having Two Classes: Input Desired.
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2013, 05:22:11 AM »
Well, with greater empowered magic and augmented magic. A fire ball cast within a cloud kill has a potential of doing 5d6 + 7 damage. It would be possible to cast this combination as low as level 8 with the proper moves. Something no warriors could ever hope to do.

Even if it does average damage, around 24 that ignore armor, it can essentially clear the whole bestiary with average damage, and even the apocalypse Dragon with one hit (unless of course the GM get's creative).  Yep it's true some class are powerful, but I think each has it's own strength and weaknesses that keeps the game interesting.

If a player, min max his character, let him do so, DW can still bring some challenge for him, and it can get quite fun to see how he can manage to go through all that stuff !