Question about alignment change.

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Question about alignment change.
« on: April 08, 2013, 11:20:13 PM »
I am MCing a game where one of my players is a Knight (the paladin variant). He started out with a good alignment and has fallen from grace after a few evil acts. The question I have is we don't think that his Valor move's questions make a lot of sense for a character of Evil alignment. I was thinking of switching the questions around the questions for a more evil flavor but was wondering if anyone had an other ideas. Thanks.

Re: Question about alignment change.
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 03:33:15 AM »
It depends on what happened in the story.
You could change the wording "Evil" with "Good" or better, "Any - enemy - of - mine", but it's too general.
What are these evil acts?
Is the Divine Patron Angry? How has He/She made it manifest?
Has the Paladin lost his powers (I suppose not)?
When this is all clear and explicit, you could make up a Compemdium Class, much similar to the Paladin, but geared towards your game.
If the Paladin becomes like an "Agent of Evil" (Stormbringer), you change the Quest move into something more focused (Slay - Steal - Destroy...), as he roams Dungeon World to quest in favor of his new master.
If the Paladin is just disgraced, he simply loses the move, gaining another; maybe a third version of Quest, in which HE is the power behind his inner strenght (like a Ronin).
Assuming the evil deeds were a choice of the player, you should not make the change sound as a punishment:
"Paladin, you fell from grace, SO you become this super cool Antipalaldin, hated and despised by you former peers. What do you do?"
Maybe this is a decent example of how to snowball things in the game, to keep it moving.

Re: Question about alignment change.
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 11:13:07 AM »
The acts that have lead to this fall are, one he has turned to a vampire and while he used to feed on animals to keep himself as he thought it 'good' he has started feeding on humans. The second thing was that he gained an evil magical assassins cloak that would only allow its powers to be used if he murdered someone for no reason and that is the evil act that pushed him over the edge.

The character also doesn't have a god. In the world we created there are only three gods and the power is passed on to an other every hundred years or if the god is killed the victory then becomes a god. The character used to be a Paladin but when his god was killed we thought the Knight variant class had less of a divine presence.

These are the questions from the Knights Valor move.
VALOR
When you enter a dangerous situation, answer the following questions:
? Am I acting to protect another or in the service of a higher ideal?
? Are the odds greatly against me?
? Am I acting without expectation of a reward?
? Am I making a reasonable attempt to avoid violence?
? Am I acting within the law?

They very clearly have a good flavor to them with the 'avoiding violence' and the 'protecting another' concepts. I was thinking of creating a Strife move and changing the questions to be like so.
? Am I acting to benefit myself?
? Do I have a clear advantage?
? Will I be rewarded for my enemies defeat?
? and so forth

I am by no means trying to punish my player this is something we are working on together to try and progress the story. We have talked about whether his character is going to try and stick to his Valorous behavior to try and return to his good ways or if he wants to land in a more neutral place. I think the only reason this has come up is that the Paladin and Knight have such a clear alignment motivation behind their class. If he was say a fighter this wouldn't even be an issue but hey where's the fun in that. Thanks for the reply.

Re: Question about alignment change.
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 11:45:45 AM »
one he has turned to a vampire
CRAP! That escalated quickly...

Ok, I see you have come out with a very personal game setting.
I can see a vampire as a honorable character. The evil cloak too, is something he may have started to wear reclutantly, or as an extreme measure. If not, it's a clear, steering decision towards the New Wave of Knightly Badness.
So, if I may suggest, why doesn't he try to become one of the gods? Maybe he must avenge his former god by executing his Slayer.
Or he can be contacted by a fourth, neutral godly Essence, who's in charge of maintaining the Balance.
Just my two cents.


About the questions, the parts really out of (new) character are the "Within the Law" and "Protect another". The others, IMHO, are still valid, and could contribute to make a well rounded anti hero.

BUT: which version of the Knight is this? I have one, WITHOUT the last two questions. Could youu tell me where to find the new version? Or is it YOUR take?

Thanks!

Re: Question about alignment change.
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 01:08:10 PM »
The two last questions are found in the Advanced moves Idealist. He gets to add two questions to his Valor list.

I think I will ask the player which of the questions still feel relevant to his outlook. If there are some that he doesn't feel fit then we can work together to make some new ones.

Either way, the player and I have some ideas to move forward with but we wanted to see if the boards had any advice. Thanks for your thoughts Uzio they have been helpful.