Author Topic: Seizing A Life By Force  (Read 24844 times)

lumpley

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2010, 08:58:33 PM »
Complicated is fine. Fnord, "directly address" doesn't mean "parrot back."

DON'T MAKE THE PROMISE BORING, MC.
Also, DON'T MAKE THE PROMISE UNSUITABLE, MC.

Right?

skinnyghost

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2010, 09:00:45 PM »
"Come with me or I will fucking shoot you."
<7 = "Do it, pussy.  I dare you." (except that you're bluffing, so you can't.)
7-9 = *shoots someone else, shoots some property, shoots SOMETHING*
10+ = "Okay okay, fuck!  Just don't shoot!"

fnord3125

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2010, 09:07:02 PM »
Complicated is fine. Fnord, "directly address" doesn't mean "parrot back."

DON'T MAKE THE PROMISE BORING, MC.
Also, DON'T MAKE THE PROMISE UNSUITABLE, MC.
Hmmm, yeah, I get what you're saying Vincent, and that's a pretty great summary.  I'm still not sure I totally agree, though.  But I actually suspect it's just differences in how I'm reading "directly address" and what you meant by it.

Thanks.

Joe Beason

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2010, 02:57:58 PM »
The second one is just... blah, to me.  Especially if I'm seducing someone just because I want to have sex with them.  Then it's even worse.  "You should have sex with me, cuz I'm hot!"  "Yeah, you are!  Promise to have sex with me!"  "Ummm, yeah, that's what I just said."
quote]

What's left out here is *why* the PC wants to have sex with the other person.  If the reason is interesting, then all the potential outcomes can be interesting.  If the reason is not interesting, then you've got to hope for an outcome that'll allow someone else to introduce some interest. 


KreenWarrior

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2010, 06:12:28 PM »
Specifically, seduction as the move isn't made to get someone to have sex with you.  You could use a negotiate move to get someone to have sex with you... bribe them with food, promises of protection, promises of pleasure.  Seduction is when you use the promise of sex to get them to do something else; ie, I'll sleep with you if you protect me, or give me bullets for my gun, or what have you.  If both parties want to have sex, and there's no leverage involved, then you don't have to use the move, I think.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 06:15:56 PM by KreenWarrior »

fnord3125

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2010, 06:20:48 PM »
While it's true that you don't need to use seduction to get someone to have sex with you, it's the best move for making someone want to have sex with you, regardless of what your actual goal is.

KreenWarrior

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2010, 06:28:32 PM »
Indeed, but in order to do that, you have to offer leverage, like food, protection, goods, services, etc.  Offering sex on its own probably doesn't count as leverage, because to have leverage, it has to be something they want already.

Actually, I'd say it can't make someone want to have sex with you.  It can make them have sex with you, but it can't make them want it, just choose to do it in order to get something they want.  Sex obtained by Seduce or Manipulate is always going to be a form of prostitution.

Edit: I think, at least.  I don't have access to my book at the moment.

I guess my thought is that it seems that sex will always be leverage, in which case they have to want it (because your character is fucking hot, presumably), or the thing you're using your leverage to get, in which case you have to have something to offer besides sex.  You won't run into the "I use sex as leverage to get sex from you".
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 06:36:59 PM by KreenWarrior »

skinnyghost

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2010, 07:04:45 PM »

Actually, I'd say it can't make someone want to have sex with you.  It can make them have sex with you, but it can't make them want it, just choose to do it in order to get something they want.  Sex obtained by Seduce or Manipulate is always going to be a form of prostitution.


I don't think this is inherently true unless you consider a sex-for-sex transaction "prostitution".

Seduce is just a specialized form on Manipulate, right?  The leverage is I will have sex with you.

fnord3125

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2010, 07:08:57 PM »
I guess my thought is that it seems that sex will always be leverage, in which case they have to want it
Only if you hit.  If you miss, you're not all that hot, and ya know, I'm gonna pass on the sex, but thanks for the offer.

KreenWarrior

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2010, 08:03:01 PM »
I guess my thought is that it seems that sex will always be leverage, in which case they have to want it
Only if you hit.  If you miss, you're not all that hot, and ya know, I'm gonna pass on the sex, but thanks for the offer.

It can also mean the price is too high.  If they didn't want to have sex with you, then you didn't have leverage, and thus couldn't make the Seduce/Manipulate roll.  I'm going off the book's statement that "To Seduce or Manipulate, you need to have leverage - sex, or a threat, or a promise, something that the manipulator can really do that the victim really wants or really doesn't want.
Quote
I don't think this is inherently true unless you consider a sex-for-sex transaction "prostitution".
What I'm saying is, an encounter where both people want to have sex with each other probably isn't a Seduce or Manipulate roll, it's just an exchange of sex.  Presumably, if both parties actually want to do something, then there doesn't have to be a move.  

Saying, "If you have sex with me, I'll protect you from Rolfball's goons" is a Manipulate move.  Saying, "I'll have sex with you if you fix my car" is a Seduce Move.  Saying, "Hey, wanna have sex?" isn't a move if the other person says "Yes please!"
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 08:04:53 PM by KreenWarrior »

skinnyghost

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2010, 08:04:07 PM »
Saying, "If you have sex with me, I'll protect you from Rolfball's goons" is a Manipulate move.  Saying, "I'll have sex with you if you fix my car" is a Seduce Move.  Saying, "Hey, wanna have sex?" isn't a move if the other person says "Yes please!"

What if it's sex on your terms?  What if it's sex-right-now or sex-with-me-and-Dremmer? 

KreenWarrior

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2010, 08:12:49 PM »
Saying, "If you have sex with me, I'll protect you from Rolfball's goons" is a Manipulate move.  Saying, "I'll have sex with you if you fix my car" is a Seduce Move.  Saying, "Hey, wanna have sex?" isn't a move if the other person says "Yes please!"

What if it's sex on your terms?  What if it's sex-right-now or sex-with-me-and-Dremmer? 
Then you have to offer leverage to make them accept your terms, I'd think.  Offer to perform a particular sex act, or promise to give particularly good sex (making the sex itself acting under fire?).  Fair enough, that's not quite as much an act of prostitution, but there's still an element of negotiation, barter, bargaining.  My point was more metaphorical than literal; using Seduce/Manipulate reduces the act of sex to an act of barter, in one way or another.

Jim Crocker

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2010, 03:33:27 AM »
  Offer to perform a particular sex act, or promise to give particularly good sex (making the sex itself acting under fire?).
[/quote]

Fucking Under Fire needs to be the name of my XBox band, I think.

This particular parsing made me think of those moves in a whole new light. Cool.

-Jim C.

Carl

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Re: Seizing A Life By Force
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2010, 10:28:52 AM »
the best move for making someone want to have sex with you

... is show them your violation glove.