Author Topic: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12  (Read 4746 times)

(not that) adam

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Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« on: September 10, 2012, 08:32:15 AM »
I like systems that allow the player to change the result of a bad roll by spending resources.

So here's what I'm gonna play this friday:

When you roll a miss, choose one:
- you mark XP
- you spend an XP and turn the miss into a 12

Obviously, when you level up, you also spend XPs, so you can't use them to improve the roll.

I heard that monster of the week has some sort of similar luck mechanic, but I don't know how it works.
Oh, the things we tell ourselves to feel better about the long, dark nights.

noclue

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 08:41:41 AM »
I think Dungeon World is fueled by the fact that you risk a miss when you decide to act. Those misses are golden opportunities for the GM. Not sure why you would want to take them away.
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

(not that) adam

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 08:43:42 AM »
cause I always want the players to win and with added awesome!
Oh, the things we tell ourselves to feel better about the long, dark nights.

leathermartini

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 12:03:47 PM »
I heard that monster of the week has some sort of similar luck mechanic, but I don't know how it works.

MotW does have a Luck mechanic, but it works a bit differently. You have a pool of Luck points which can do a few things when you spend them (mitigate all damage from a source, turn a roll into a 12, maybe one more thing, I don't have them in front of me). That said, you have a finite number of Luck points (7?) and it is very, very hard to add more to them. (One play book as an advancement (5 xp) that does it. I think there is some sort of "campaign arc" level advancement that allows other playbooks to do the same thing.)

With XP being -more- common in DW, I would be reluctant to let players buy out of a miss for 1 xp (even though that's effectively 2 xp, since they're giving up the one they would have gained plus spending one). That feels very cheap. I've not run into a lot of misses, at least not a lot that completely hosed people. I might raise the price a bit (4?, that would put it in line with MotW for number of points by making it effectively 5).

benhimself

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 12:24:16 PM »
I'm... pretty wary of games that give you a resource that is both temporary success or permanent character advancement, you know? I remember disliking Karma in old-school shadowrun for that reason: that I could blow my karma right now to not fail an important roll, but it would hurt long-term growth potential?

Maybe whenever you earn xp, you earn a luck as well? And can spend luck to bump a failure up to a 7-9, or a 7-9 to a 10+?

mease19

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 02:11:11 PM »
Maybe just me but I bet you see players fall into the 'never spending my XP, now I'm level 3' camp and the 'I'll be level 1 forever but wipe the floor with everything' camp.  Also, 1 xp to turn a 4 into a 12 on last breath?  Spout lore to fish for misses to power up my xp for that next fight where I plan to not miss.

Scrape

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2012, 03:11:22 PM »
I actually love systems with a "temporary bonus or longterm advancement" system, like shadowrun, but I don't think it works very well for DW. Like previous posters mentioned, the game revolves around the premise that GMs make a Move on a miss. It keeps the adventure flowing. Do what's right for your table, but I think that GM moves are often more fun than having that safety net, in the long run.

Jeremy

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2012, 06:02:02 PM »
You could tamp the effect down a bit.  Rather than "spend 1 XP to a make a roll a 12," you could have "spend 1 XP to give +1 to a roll you just made.  So it could turn a 6 into a soft hit or a 9 into a full hit.  But a 5 or less is still going to be a miss, period. (And turning a 6 into a 7 really is costing 2 xp total.)

Additional potential XP use:

Spend 1 XP to negate (halve?) the damage you just took, but the GM picks one:
- You lose your footing, your grip, or your bearings
- Something breaks (your weapon, your shield, etc.)
- You're somehow imperilled: on fire, dazed, pinned, etc.

Scrape

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 08:47:00 PM »
That's a little better, I think, but I still think that failed rolls don't make a bad game. They snowball the action, intentionally. Works great so I don't wanna mess with it.

(not that) adam

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 10:19:51 PM »
Gee guys, you really made me rethink about this L
Oh, the things we tell ourselves to feel better about the long, dark nights.

Mike Olson

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2012, 02:53:19 AM »
I like systems that allow the player to change the result of a bad roll by spending resources.
Me too, normally, but not in Apocalypse-powered games. I like how unforgiving the core mechanic is.

In a game like DW, with its focus on stuff like hard bargains and tough choices, when you give players a resource to spend to turn success into failure, you're saying that the game is about success vs. failure, but it's not -- it's about contributing new details and dramatic elements to the narrative.

Scrape

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 04:13:43 AM »
I like systems that allow the player to change the result of a bad roll by spending resources.
Me too, normally, but not in Apocalypse-powered games. I like how unforgiving the core mechanic is.

In a game like DW, with its focus on stuff like hard bargains and tough choices, when you give players a resource to spend to turn success into failure, you're saying that the game is about success vs. failure, but it's not -- it's about contributing new details and dramatic elements to the narrative.

Yes, this exactly. I totally understand and like the "karma burning" idea, but I don't think it fits a *World game.

leathermartini

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2012, 06:53:37 PM »
Further, failure in AW games is interesting, success is not. Generally speaking, a 10+ result is the most boring result in the fiction. (<i>I cast Magic Missle. <b>rolls</b> Eleven! A blast of energy shoots from my hand and does X damage.</i>). AW-games make failure and partial success far more interesting than the typical games "You miss".

Scrape

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2012, 09:05:10 PM »
Further, failure in AW games is interesting, success is not. Generally speaking, a 10+ result is the most boring result in the fiction. (<i>I cast Magic Missle. <b>rolls</b> Eleven! A blast of energy shoots from my hand and does X damage.</i>). AW-games make failure and partial success far more interesting than the typical games "You miss".

Yeah, 100% this. I'd be wary of anything that eliminates the "hard choice" from the moves results. Those failures lead to better and more exciting games, unlike other systems.

Terwox

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Re: Spend XPs to turn miss into a 12
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 05:28:25 AM »
Quick, semi-related question -- is it standard in the rules that you mark experience if you roll a miss?  I think it's not in 2.3, but I'm not sure how it works, or worked previously.

Also, what if it was spend XP to change the result to 7-9?  That eschews the whole "10+ is the boring outcome" part of the above.