Author Topic: Meet the Succubus  (Read 27973 times)

Tore V

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 11:54:22 AM »
Just a quick note: If you want to read more about succubi and deals with the devil, try Succubus Blues (published as Succubus on top in the US) by Richelle mead. The entire series is pretty good, and mainly deals with a succubus trying to deal with her job of corrupting people through sex, her day job in a bookstore and her relationship with a mortal. That relationship can never be consumated. They can't even kiss, because if they do, she'll be sucking out his lifeforce because he's so pure.
The series also deals with her relationships with her other immortal friends.

All in all a pretty good read, and very inspiring for an MC.

Ernesto Pavan

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 12:14:05 PM »
Just a quick note: If you want to read more about succubi and deals with the devil, try Succubus Blues (published as Succubus on top in the US) by Richelle mead. The entire series is pretty good, and mainly deals with a succubus trying to deal with her job of corrupting people through sex, her day job in a bookstore and her relationship with a mortal. That relationship can never be consumated. They can't even kiss, because if they do, she'll be sucking out his lifeforce because he's so pure.
The series also deals with her relationships with her other immortal friends.

All in all a pretty good read, and very inspiring for an MC.

You won me with the first few words of description. I purchased the ebook on Amazon ^^

Cneph

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2012, 07:15:30 PM »
Hmm, maybe I didn't clearly make my point.  Sure, getting strings on people in return for gifts is a fine representation of gaining power over them.  Mythological demons tempt mortals with various things, vices if you will. Succubi specifically offer sex, and commonly drained or captured something from their victim- life energy and/or/i.e. semen.  If you're adding the faustian ability to grant other gifts, I'd say Infernal Gifts would be the Succubi sex move. Perhaps that's what you are hinting at with 'time and intimacy'.  This is what I meant by a price, I suppose- give yourself to the Succubi in return for... well, usually in the mythology, just the wanton sex.  They are muy sexy, but take something in return for the pleasure.

Succubi seduces you, you have sex.  String gained on you, and the sex makes you feel great.  I could see the partner getting to choose from a list, like lose a condition, heal a harm, get a string on someone else- something to keep them hooked.  But they'd maybe also get a condition like drained or sex addict or similar.  Then maybe the Succubi has additional options to spend a String on people with that Condition.

There might be a productive approach in enhancing Turn Someone On as a move, perhaps adding a mechanical incentive to the target to 'give themselves to you' or making it an additional option on a 10+, with incentive for the target (XP?, but you'd need something for NPCs).

Just my thoughts on the skin.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 08:05:26 PM by Cneph »

Cneph

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2012, 08:39:13 PM »
With the Gifts, It feels like there are two skins here, or the Succubus is a specific type of the proto-Dark-power-in-the-flesh one-type-of-Faustian-bargain-offering Demon skin.

The base move of the skin is to be able to offer a Temptation to others, Choose one of Sex, Money, Power, Popularity, Success.  This gives the recipient some advantage in this arena.  People who take up the temptation fall under the Demons power and/or pay a price.  The Sex move is activated when they in some way take advantage of the Temptation- this might be when the price (the Condition) is paid.

But this is probably drifting from your intention and the thread, but I'd be interested in Joes thoughts on a PC mini-Dark-Power.

Ernesto Pavan

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2012, 05:08:37 PM »
The Succubus has a booklet! Thanks to Max Hervieux for the illustration and to Daniele Di Rubbo for putting it together.

I made a couple modifications to the old version: the text was clarified and some typos corrected, I removed a move and added one or two (and yes, now the Succubus can shapeshift).

If you find something wrong with the text, please make me know (it's my fault). And of course, if you try it, please send me an actual play :-)

Here's the link.

Renee

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2012, 09:28:19 PM »
Had my game started this week instead of last, this would be on the table. If I manage to bring anyone new into the game, it'll be an option.

Off the cuff, I do feel like 9 moves plus gifts is a lot to squeeze into a skin. Feels like it's pushing the envelope a bit much.

Ernesto Pavan

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2012, 09:29:47 PM »
Off the cuff, I do feel like 9 moves plus gifts is a lot to squeeze into a skin. Feels like it's pushing the envelope a bit much.

Yeah, I've got the same impression, but honestly didn't know what to cut. Maybe I'll wait for some feedback and take away those moves that nobody uses.

Renee

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2012, 09:50:37 PM »
I went through this too while writing my Anansi skin, and I'm still not sure I have it quite perfect yet. Off the top of my head, I think Addictive and My Bitch, while thematically appropriate, cover the same territory...they're ways to get over on someone. In fact, The Devil Is A Winner does this too. Various combinations of those moves applied against a single target would, I think, create play that's not very suspenseful (and maybe not fun; it would depend I suppose).

Also, it seems fairly criminal that a Succubi skin doesn't have some special enhancement to the Turn Someone On move. Maybe I'm thinking inside the box, but I'd be trying to work that into the Succubi's default move somehow.

I have thoughts about Shapechanger as well, but I'm not sure I can articulate them just yet. I love gender-bending and I feel like there should be a move to accomodate this (at the same time, it'd be a shame to overlap thematic territory with what Jackson is doing). Maybe when the Succubus turns someone on, they may ask the player they're targeting who their character's idealized sexual partner is...and that's the form the succubus takes (and can take whenever they're appearing to that character)?

Just some thoughts. I like the skin a lot...the bitter jilted lover idea is great, and some of the moves really grab me. Just This Time is probably my favorite.

Ernesto Pavan

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2012, 09:55:25 PM »
I went through this too while writing my Anansi skin, and I'm still not sure I have it quite perfect yet. Off the top of my head, I think Addictive and My Bitch, while thematically appropriate, cover the same territory...they're ways to get over on someone. In fact, The Devil Is A Winner does this too. Various combinations of those moves applied against a single target would, I think, create play that's not very suspenseful (and maybe not fun; it would depend I suppose).

Also, it seems fairly criminal that a Succubi skin doesn't have some special enhancement to the Turn Someone On move. Maybe I'm thinking inside the box, but I'd be trying to work that into the Succubi's default move somehow.

I have thoughts about Shapechanger as well, but I'm not sure I can articulate them just yet. I love gender-bending and I feel like there should be a move to accomodate this (at the same time, it'd be a shame to overlap thematic territory with what Jackson is doing). Maybe when the Succubus turns someone on, they may ask the player they're targeting who their character's idealized sexual partner is...and that's the form the succubus takes (and can take whenever they're appearing to that character)?

Just some thoughts. I like the skin a lot...the bitter jilted lover idea is great, and some of the moves really grab me. Just This Time is probably my favorite.

That's great feedback! Thanks.

nomadzophiel

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2012, 10:27:42 AM »
This reminds me so much of In Nomine's Lilim. For those not familiar with the game, their power granted by their particular demonic essence is that any deal they make marks their soul and the person they made the deal with. This can be a long, drawn out infernal contract or it can be as simple as making dinner and getting their date to agree "you owe me one for this". The biggest trick they have up their sleeve is that these favors are cumulative. So if a Lilim picks you up when your car breaks down, you owe her the same later. But if she cheats on tests for you a bunch of times, you either owe several small favors or one big one (like "kill that guy" big). I mention this because its already so well represented by Strings.

The Lilim are associated with succubi because they're all daughters of Lilith and not above using sex to build up their favor pool. So I can clearly see the overlap of the Faustian/Succubus. In fact, there might be room for a simple move like "you owe me", although its a bit late for me to come up with the wording.

Now, on to the actual playbook. My main issue is that the Gifts are more powerful than the ones the Infernalist can get for less downside. I would suggest Gifts of Protection and Wealth could work as-is but maybe the other ones should be replaced with the Infernalists' Power Flows Through You, Numbing it Out and Elsewise Power.

Just In Time looks like it could be a lot of fun. Offer someone a Gift, burn that string to offer them XP, they use the String to fulfill the offer.

A Little Help is neat and would fit nicely in the "doing favors" category, possibly even to the point that Gifts wouldn't be required. Some things a Succubus can do herself to incur a debt. For the rest, there's A Little Help.

I can't help but picture an adult version of The Succubus working as a talent agent (or at Wolfram and Hart). "don't worry, we'll get you the role. Just bring the goat to my office by 10 for the blood sacrifice."

nomadzophiel

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2012, 10:15:53 PM »
This Skin has really stuck with me. I'm starting to develop some pretty clear ideas for it. . . not necessarily a full rewrite but probably something different enough that I'll slap a different name on it. Here's an example:

When you have sex with someone you may spend strings to them 1 for 1 to deal harm. When you spend at least one string, roll+harm dealt. If you kill your target this way, this roll is at an additional +1.

On 10+ choose 3 of the following, on 7-9 choose 1. On miss, the strings are still gone but the target gets wise to you before taking harm.

Heal yourself of 1 harm for every harm you deal.
Mark Experience
Your target gets the condition Addicted (to sex with you)
The victim doesn't see you as the source of the harm. If you kill you victim, the cause will appear to be natural, like a heart attack or something.

My only thought is this would make the Succubus a very dark character, trading in addiction and murder.

Ernesto Pavan

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2012, 10:53:16 PM »
Great feedback! Did you have a chance to playtest the Skin?

The Gifts are powerful, yes. They are meant to be. But they're also one-shot and can only be used by others. The main point is that the Succubus can make your darkest wishes come true... while slowly turning you into her toy. It's really a deal with the devil, but unlike the Infernal, in this case you're playing the dealer.

The new move looks very nice, but I don't think it really fits the Skin's theme. It would be great for a skin focused on vengeance and bloodshed, though.

nomadzophiel

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2012, 11:45:26 PM »
Haven't playtested it, no. I'm hoping to get into a PBP game at the moment but have to wait for someone else to drop. If I do, I'll be happy to ask if i can playtest it.

I tried to fit it with the classic image of the succubus and the deal with the devil element. I also wanted to include something that makes it bad to not spend strings when having sex but it was getting long and unwieldy enough already.

Keep in mind that the Infernal's gifts for strings are also one shot. Yours are MUCH more powerful. One of the things I liked about the Lilim is that they didn't have a specifically wish-granting power. In this game it would translate more like:

Heart's Desire: Roll+dark. On a hit you know what your target most wants <i>right this moment</i>. On a 10+ you also know what their deepest desire is. Providing either gives you a String.

alternately

Let's Make A Deal: If someone agrees to "owe you one" for something, either before or after you do it, you get a string over them. (Againt NPC's, this may require a manipulate roll after you've done the favor)

The favor repayment part is trickier to do under the system. I suppose the Strings as bonuses to Manipulate covers it pretty well.

The general idea is that they're at the center of this web of favors, helping people who can help them later and building up debts until they can "pay off" by having enough Strings to devour someone completely. I'd probably add something else to spend Strings on but the bonuses already provided make them pretty powerful.

I'd even dump A Little Help and Infernal Gifts to replace with those two. The other powers already mesh with one another very well. A resourceful Succubus can start from scratch and build up enough influence to wrap even the hardest case around their finger just with that. The fact that they pick up strings fast will put them in a position to grant wishes through purely mundane means pretty quickly.

EDIT: Not sure if Heart's Desire and Let's Make A Deal should be together or not. Strings are awfully powerful and the combination can make any Heart's Desire favor worth two strings.

Also the sex move's harm vs power dynamic is supposed to be something the player doesn't necessarily like. They'd much rather just use sex for power but that power is fueled by the victim's life force. The harm is a balance to the fact that you get some really good stuff from the rest of the sex move. . . in fact rather than rolling it might be Hold 1 for every harm you deal and spend that hold for the results. . . I'll revisit that in a bit.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 12:12:10 AM by nomadzophiel »

Ernesto Pavan

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2012, 12:14:47 AM »
Now that I notice, you seem to have read the old version; did you check the latest one? There are some significant differences.

nomadzophiel

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Re: Meet the Succubus
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2012, 01:07:40 AM »
I'm working from this one:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B98eU24MQ87uX0F5WXVwendsUW8/edit?pli=1

Although at this point I'm more or less cobbling together my own ideas out loud while cribbing heavily from it. :)