Stat-substitution and nonstandard moves

[hobbesque]

So you're a Gunlugger. You're Insano like Drano and Battle-Hardened, which pretty much covers 100% of the badassery you think is important: you can seize things, extort people with the threat of immediate violence, and act under all sorts of fire. You set it up this way at chargen and, perhaps thinking you'd switched out the one use of Cool that you'd see (without taking another playbook's move that uses it), left yourself seriously uncool in the conventional way.

How should the MC handle things like the Battle move provide cover fire (normally +cool)? Should you be good at that?

Farther out: if the MC introduces the custom moves for sneaking or pickpocketing from the rulebook, should you be good at those? Ghosting fools is definitely the sort of thing that BAMFs like yourself might expect to be good at; sleight-of-hand less so.

Those are pretty clearly refinements of Act Under Fire (codifying the specific hard choice you have to make in the case of a weak hit), but there will probably be other custom moves that are less so. You, however, might still be expecting to be able to act Cool.

Thoughts? Any examples that you think should go one way or the other? This thread, and this post in particular of Vincent's, might be relevant.

[Pheylorn]

Farther out: if the MC introduces the custom moves for sneaking or pickpocketing from the rulebook, should you be good at those? Ghosting fools is definitely the sort of thing that BAMFs like yourself might expect to be good at; sleight-of-hand less so.

When I make custom moves, such as the pick-pocketing one listed above I never allow players to sub out stats for them. The example move in question (battle hardened) allows you to roll +hard for acting under fire, it doesn't replace the stat. If the Gunlugger takes gigs, he's rolling cool, not hard.

As a rule I hate the stat substitution moves, they feel very cheap and min/max to me, but they exist and I won't deny access to them for my players. It's their loss if they want to cover up their flaws.

Now that being said, I'm an ass so some people might be more lenient on this front and i'm also a hypocrite since I've taken these moves before as a player. However I feel very dirty when I do and take no pride in it. :(

My two cents.

[Christopher Weeks]

I like stat-substitution moves.  But I'd never apply them more broadly than they're written.  If it merits a custom move, that's because it's different enough from acting under fire to be something different and distinct.

With regard to providing cover fire, I guess that's an aspect of fighting that isn't helped by being insano or battle-hardened.  You're too twitchy maybe and anyway, why do those fuckers need cover-fire -- can't they just grow a pair?

[DWeird]

Not directly applicable, but related:

During playtesting, I asked Vincent if the Driver's car bonuses applied to the optional battle moves. It doesn't say they do, but the logic seems to imply that the moves gets you bonuses to all relevant basic moves, of which the optional battle moves are a part (as in, you don't have to be no one special to do them). Vincent said yes, the bonuses apply.

If you look at it like that, the question is whether the custom move is or is not basic.

Custom moves are always more specific than the original basic moves, but they can be in the same-ish area, as you noticed - "when you pickpocket something, roll +appropriate stat" is going to be different from "when trying to catch Ratsie in the warrens, roll +cool" applicability wise.

So say you have a kinda-sorta basic move, but it has that tinge of specificity that that doesn't allow you to just let someone use a stat without anything - and when you do, you can bridge that gap. Ask the Battlehardened gunlugger if he thinks his move would apply to refined act under fire pickpocketing move. If he says no, cool. If he says yes, ask him what kind of battles teach a man to steal. Listen to answer, reincorporate later if you want. Usual MC fare.

You might end up with a situation where Battlehardened does different things from game to game, but I'm not sure if that's that big a deal.

[hobbesque]

DWeird, That's sort of where I was at, and thanks for the peek into the psychic maelstrom designer's playtest notes. Mechanics follow fiction in the usual AW way, and that'll lead to something, and a lot of custom moves, to me, definitely could be written "To Do This Thing, do This Basic Move with the following modifications/specifications." The battle moves seem to be semi-canonically in that category.

Not-being-noticed to me is sort of a big one, since it's something that's likely to come up all the time, and the same Gunlugger on the sheet will have very different play experiences in games run by a more/less liberal-in-this-respect MC who are/are not using optional special moves.

Ask questions, make it seem real. There are many Gunluggers with shit Cool and Battle-Hardened, of infinite variety; they might be a specops ninja,* or they might just be good at bushwhacking and not at infiltrating,* or their enemies might know them by their hear-him-coming-a-mile-away fidgeting with guns/roars/cackles/screams/heavy nervous breathing, even if he keeps it together fine when the bullets actually start.* And similar arrays for other swap-moves, to taste.

Cool. Thanks guys (feel free to keep at it, though).

*and Ratsie is frustrating bastard who just gets him and the warrens turn him right around, and he has neither the talent nor inclination to control his reputation or do regular gigs for hire &tc.

[DWeird]

The online playtest blog is still there for perusal, if you want: http://www.lumpley.com/apocalypse/blog/

Doesn't have a search function, so I can't easily dig up the comment I mentioned, though.