Beta 2 changes, add them to first play?

[donbaloo]

We're looking to give this a go next Friday and will be playing from the Basic PDF we downloaded. Looking at the news section, there's a lot of changes going on. Do you folks recommend moving forward and implementing the ones that are easy to do and straight forward (like HP changes) or should we just plow ahead with the Basic rules as they stand?

[pseudoidiot]

You could run a demo using the basic rules in the pdf. Post an AP somewhere. Get access to the Adventurer's Guild and download the Beta 2 document.

[donbaloo]

Hey Jeremiah, yeah we'll be playing Friday from the basic PDF. I was just wondering about some of the straight forward stuff mentioned in the release notes of beta 2. It's not a big deal either way I'm sure. I'm just getting excited about the game and making noise for the most part!

[skinnyghost]

The Red Book is a great place to start a game.  I'd suggest running it, as-is, through the Bloodstone Idol adventure to get your feet wet, so to speak.  After that, hit up gm@dungeon-world.com and tell us all about your experiences and we'll give you access to the Guild.  From there, you can use whatever parts of the Beta rules you'd like; jump in wholesale or just pick and choose what you want to "upgrade".

The Beta rules are getting more and more polished every day, but we stand behind Red Book as a fully featured, solid game!  You'll have fun, I suspect, with whichever approach you take.

[donbaloo]

Sounds good and I suspect we'll just go straight with Basic. I'm assuming that the HP changes would unbalance the unupdated Bloodstone Idol creatures.

Just as general feedback Adam, after reading the Basic three times I still felt a little iffy on exactly what the GM is doing with his part of the conversation. Is he always  making a move? And moves snowballing wasn't clear to me. I felt like the PDF could have benefited from an extensive example about moves snowballing like what's in AW. I went back into AW specifically to read that chapter and immediately felt a little better about what DW was driving at.

Either way I'm psyched out of my mind to get to play this weekend! Looks like you guys have done some amazing work! Thanks!

[noofy]

Hey Chris!
I just know you guys are going to have a blast on friday :)

In answer to tour question about if a GM is always making a move? I would say Yes.... sort of. Sometimes you are just asking lots of questions and using the answers right? So when you use the answers you are making a move.

You never 'name' your move as you make it as a GM (except maybe in your head as you glance at the list), but sometimes the simple act of scene framing is in actuality a soft move, revealing an unwelcome truth, showing signs of doom, or my personal favourite: starting a scene with action! and Putting them in a spot!

Sage has taken a lot of time to craft the chapter on GMing to a fantastic expose on how run the game, this paragraph in particular sums up the 'when do I make a move?' query.

Hope that helps?

When to Make a Move
You make a move when everyone looks to you to find out what happens. When it's your turn to say something in the conversation you make a move. In particular, you make a soft move: a move that sets up a future move.
Making a soft move just means that you put events in motion, then let the players react. If they don't do anything about it you follow through with the full consequences, making another (harder) move. Showing signs of doom is your most versatile soft move since the doom you portend is a move waiting to happen.
Of course your moves apply when the players undertake something that's not a player move. In that case the players will say something, like "I lay my case before the king, pleading for aid," and look to you to find out what happens. Since they haven't made a move (there's no leverage to make a Parley) you just respond with a soft move of your own as setup by the fiction.
You also make a move when the players give you a golden opportunity. A golden opportunity is any time they ignore a threat or when they fail a roll (6-).

[donbaloo]

Definitely, thanks Noofy. I'm actually crossing the threshhold of information exposure now to where things are starting to click more. I was really hoping to be able to provide more feedback to Adam and Sage on how it all reads to someone completely from the outside with no AW world exposure. But I've already spent enough time discussing on here and asking questions and peaking at Beta updates that the fog is clearing a bit. But the down side is now I'm exposed so I can't give virgin feedback now! Blast!

But to your specific topic, yeah, I can see the GM's moves in within all the possibilities now. I still think it would have helped me to actually read the Bloodstone Idol, seeing the various dangers and the moves associated with them. Just seeing the breadth of narrative choices would have made it easier to grasp I think instead of just thinking about it in the abstract.

One of the moves that I really really like, in theory mind you, is tell them the consequences and ask. Its pretty much a "Yes, but...", reminding GMs to let the players go for stuff...even if there's no move there, don't shut it down but build on it. I think its the perfect answer to the scene in the example of the character beseeching the king without leverage. No chance at parley. But a perfect opportunity to let them charry the fiction and complicate the hell out of stuff at the same time. All of the moves are subtle reminders, well not even reminders so much as just requirements, that say do this thing and make it important.

I like that.

[skinnyghost]

Sage has taken a lot of time to craft the chapter on GMing to a fantastic expose on how run the game, this paragraph in particular sums up the 'when do I make a move?' query.

Oh, Sage has, has he?  *wink*

[noofy]

Oh Adam! I'm so so sorry! I always try and say Adam and Sage, but sometimes one of you slips trough the net. I totally appreciate that Dungeon World is a joint product, a collaboration. I'm most shamefaced.

Sadam or Adage just doesn't sit right with me for some reason. *wink back*

I can't wait to meet both of you for real. Total fanboi here. I'm planning on heading stateside later in the year and will endeavour to hook up with you gentlemen, Vincent, and the Burning Wheel crew too, and thank you for the wonderful games and ways of playing them you have brought to our community, and more importantly changed the way I play roleplaying games with my friends and family  :)

[skinnyghost]

Oh Adam! I'm so so sorry! I always try and say Adam and Sage, but sometimes one of you slips trough the net.

Hah, I'm just joking around - everyone knows I wrote all the good parts anyway.  No need for shameface!