Author Topic: Stats & Basic Moves?  (Read 9173 times)

fnord3125

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Re: Stats & Basic Moves?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2010, 10:34:02 PM »
Maybe... I'm just bothered by the idea that I can't say, "Uhhh, no that doesn't turn my character on AT ALL."  But I guess if that's how Joe wants the game to work, well... go for it.

mcdaldno

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Re: Stats & Basic Moves?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2010, 03:23:41 AM »
Maybe... I'm just bothered by the idea that I can't say, "Uhhh, no that doesn't turn my character on AT ALL."  But I guess if that's how Joe wants the game to work, well... go for it.

Alright, taken under consideration. It might get changed to "When you try to turn someone on" or "When you seduce someone" or "When you throw your sexuality around" or something else.

For the moment, I'd love feedback on other elements - the stats, the moves, concern about how the stats relate to one another, etc.

Any?


lumpley

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Re: Stats & Basic Moves?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2010, 01:57:43 PM »
Unruly schmunruly! I think volatile is much better.

I like the thrust of the moves, but some of them have wishy-washy bits. "It could have been worse" would be stronger in the move than "it could always have been worse," for instance.

The "on a miss" clauses jump out at me. I found when I was designing my basic moves that if I had to write "on a miss...," it meant that I hadn't fully generalized the move to myself. It meant that I was designing an instance of the move, not the underlying move I was shooting for. For example: when you're running away and you miss the roll, why isn't "you get away, but you expose your true self to the wrong person" a legit outcome?

Along the same lines, if it were me I'd promote the very delicious final clause of the abyss move right up to a move of its own: "Sometimes the abyss will make a demand of you. Meet its demand or become your Darkest Self."

And I can't help commenting on the unwelcome topic! Sex is a lightning rod. (1) I agree with Shreyas. (2) You could, if you wanted, make it the subject's move. "When someone is turning you on, tell them; they roll+hot..."

mcdaldno

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Re: Stats & Basic Moves?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2010, 06:52:29 PM »
Unruly schmunruly! I think volatile is much better.

Seeing Volatile & Steady side by side felt awkward, which is why I changed it. The Hot/Cold contrast was awesome, but Volatile/Steady felt a bit... overdone?

Gah, so hard! Taken under consideration - I may well jump back to volatile again.

The "on a miss" clauses jump out at me. I found when I was designing my basic moves that if I had to write "on a miss...," it meant that I hadn't fully generalized the move to myself. It meant that I was designing an instance of the move, not the underlying move I was shooting for. For example: when you're running away and you miss the roll, why isn't "you get away, but you expose your true self to the wrong person" a legit outcome?

Hm. Yeah, I get what you mean. I can strip the "on a miss" results from When you turn someone on and When you run away from a situation without losing anything.

And I can make one of the MC's listed moves "expose someone's true self to the wrong person," and generalize that threat, and thus strip the "on a miss" result from When you try to keep it together.

I really like the on a miss result for When you lash out, though. It speaks to something I think is true about the genre - when you lash out at others, that's when you're most likely to be vulnerable. And so while I'm happy to let the others slide, this one matters to me. Vx, counsel me - am I heading down the wrong design path, here?

Along the same lines, if it were me I'd promote the very delicious final clause of the abyss move right up to a move of its own: "Sometimes the abyss will make a demand of you. Meet its demand or become your Darkest Self."

My internal monologue at the moment: "What the fuck, you can do that?!"

Neat. I'm having trouble seeing this as a wholly independent move, but seeing it easily as a corollary to gazing into the abyss... like how the psychic maelstrom might ask you questions, the abyss might make demands. So, maybe that's the solution?

And I can't help commenting on the unwelcome topic! Sex is a lightning rod. (1) I agree with Shreyas. (2) You could, if you wanted, make it the subject's move. "When someone is turning you on, tell them; they roll+hot..."

Hm.

I don't think making it the subject's move is the right solution here, because turning others on is the primary way in which people wrack up Strings. You don't want people having strings against you (in that actually-i-love-it-because-i'm-an-indie-sadist sort of way).

But I like that you're spinning the move around and looking at it from different angles, and I should take some time to do the same.

lumpley

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Re: Stats & Basic Moves?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2010, 07:39:39 PM »
Cool! Ultimately I agree with Shreyas about it, so I'm all like "if you wanted to, you could..." not "here's a possible solution to the problem." I don't think there's a problem. I think it's an opportunity for you to say exactly what you want to say.

"When the abyss makes a demand of you" is the same kind of move as "when you suffer harm," so sure, you can do that. If you want to make a structure of rules for when the abyss makes a demand -- "there are 3 circumstances under which the abyss will make a demand..." -- that's wholly allowed and almost certainly the right thing to do. I made a structure of rules for when you suffer harm.

> Vx, counsel me - am I heading down the wrong design path, here?

Oh pf. I'm not saying any such thing. There's not even any real hard line between basic moves and character moves; it's certainly okay to say what happens on a miss, when that's what you want to do.

Margolotte

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Re: Stats & Basic Moves?
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2010, 08:38:38 PM »
I can deal with the "XYZ turns you on" if I then get to choose how I react to that arousal. There's a fine line between expressing the weirdness and danger of teen sexuality, and putting actions onto my character without my buy-in. So yeah, messed up goth-punk ghoul might be hot, but can I still choose to not get involved with that drama-show? Sometimes arousal is a warning you're in danger, and sometimes you can listen.

fnord3125

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Re: Stats & Basic Moves?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2010, 09:43:14 PM »
The "on a miss" clauses jump out at me. I found when I was designing my basic moves that if I had to write "on a miss...," it meant that I hadn't fully generalized the move to myself. It meant that I was designing an instance of the move, not the underlying move I was shooting for.
Any chance you might be able to talk about this in more detail in the Blood & Guts forum?

mcdaldno

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Re: Stats & Basic Moves?
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2010, 12:02:59 AM »
I can deal with the "XYZ turns you on" if I then get to choose how I react to that arousal. There's a fine line between expressing the weirdness and danger of teen sexuality, and putting actions onto my character without my buy-in. So yeah, messed up goth-punk ghoul might be hot, but can I still choose to not get involved with that drama-show? Sometimes arousal is a warning you're in danger, and sometimes you can listen.

*nods*

The move absolutely doesn't force actions on the aroused, in its current state. It sets up a String. On a 7-9 result, it gives the aroused two options out of that String (giving yourself or giving a promise), but they're only options.

I haven't unpacked how Strings get spent yet, which I should get around to at some point. Essentially, it's still not solid in my head, but is something like:

Spend a String to:
*add +1 to your next move against them
*add -1 to their next move against you
*declare that doing that certain thing requires they try to hold it together (if you're in the scene or it affects you)
*offer them experience to do what you want
*add +1 harm to harm you do to them

Something along those lines. Similar to when you have a hold from In-Brain Puppet Strings, or when you seduce/manipulate a PC in Apocalypse World.

Christian

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Re: Stats & Basic Moves?
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2010, 03:28:31 PM »
Yeah, use Volatile. Much more punchy than Unruly. And in a game that lists Twilight as a source, there should be no worries about overdoing anything. :)