Disciplined Engagement and Bluffing

Quick question:

If a character has Disciplined Engagement (as the Quarantine), does that mean that s/he can Go Aggro, threatening harm, but then "pull their punches" and not follow through (by choosing to inflict 0-harm)?

I wouldn't go as low as 0-harm. 0-harm means what, shoving someone lightly ? I'd go 1-harm minimum or S-harm.

That's a good point.

But either way:

I guess I'm really curious whether this might somehow "ruin" the Go Aggro move. After all, Vincent wrote that "you can't change your mind now" for a reason, right?

I think that's kinda the point of the Quran's move, to pull punches. That they get it and no one else does is okay with me.

But, remember, to do it do it. So if the Qurantine's going aggro with a shotgun against someone's temple, the Qurantine's gonna have to be able to explain how they do bingo harm. I think S-harm is fine in these situations.

Yes, to do it do it...

To me, the "victim" should be able to perceive an ambivalent threat.
The shot of the gun and the lighter one; say a knee in the balls...
It should be clear by reading the description of the scene that the PC could inflict both harms if he wants to.

The PC should never express the real threat.
No:"Do it or i'll shoot you!"
But:"Do it or I promise, I'll take your bollocks!"

In this case, no problem for me with 0 harms (ahem... Let's say 1 harm in this case^^).

In this case, no problem for me with 0 harms (ahem... Let's say 1 harm in this case^^).

S-harm is a good alternative for a knee to the balls, methink. If you don't go too hard, no lasting harm done but the guy is nonetheless disabled. But 1-harm is good too.

IIRC, in the rulebook the 0-harm thing happens only when armor comes into play. Like you take 2-harm, you have 2-armour and the MC decides nonetheless to have you roll the harm move (the bastard). I don't think anything worth our gaming time does 0-harm per se.

For case like these, S-harm is the shit.

(Two things Greg thinks don't get enough love in the AW rulebook : the s-harm rules, and the implanted tag)

Why not 0-harm? If I remember right, the moves says you can have the damage be as low as you want, so 0-harm should be good for it.

Frex, I might have a gun, there may be a battle, and there may be a guy running away from me. I seize his ability to run away. I do zero harm, but instead shoot a rock in a way that would make him trip...

Or, I go aggro and put a shotgun to a guy's head and tell him I'll shoot him if he doesn't tell me stuff. He doesn't tell me stuff, I don't shoot him. I don't even kick him in the balls. Why not? Because I'm disciplined.

I mean, most times, I don't see why you would want to do 0-harm instead of s-harm... But there's nothing on the lid that says you can't, right?

Don't know why exactly, but doing 0-harm to somebody feels like paying 0-barter to someone.

Yes, to do it do it...

To me, the "victim" should be able to perceive an ambivalent threat.

To me, it's the exact opposite!  The victim can't perceive an ambivalent threat from someone with this move.; that's why it's still Go Aggro, not Manipulate!

They know they're about to get a shotgun blast to the face... but then the Q hits them with the butt or +click+, wasn't racked and they faint in relief... or the Q shifts aim slightly and deafens them... or the Q blows their head off... they don't know until after they've made their choice to suck it up... there's no inherent "ambivalence" in the Q's choice... could be that they're sadistic and like people to suffer, not that they're soft!

What the victim perceives is irrelevant (except that he usually has to perceive a threat for go aggro to work in the first place).

What 'actually happens' in the fiction should allow for the guy who's going aggro to act in a way that does whatever damage the player says he does, though. Which is easy in the case of zero harm! You just don't do whatever you say you would do.

To me, the difference between regular aggro and Disciplined Engagement is roughly equivalent to the bellow:

"Move, and I cut you."

"Hands on the ground! I see a twitch, there's going to be a hole 'tween those pretty little eyes."

When you do regular aggro, your instincts are in control. When you do disciplined engagement, your training and brain are.

What I think is interesting about this is that Go aggro get's its weight from the fact that you have to deal harm if they suck it up - It's a promise of pain that you roll to prove that you're good for. You don't actually want to kill them - You want them to do something for you.

The quarantine, if s/he is too disciplined to shoot in cold blood, is not good for his promise of pain. In a way, his move is as much a handicap as a boon: Apocalypse World citizens might suck it up if they detect that this pre-apocalypse softie doesn't have the guts and hardened cynizism to kill them outright.

The quarantine, if s/he is too disciplined to shoot in cold blood, is not good for his promise of pain. In a way, his move is as much a handicap as a boon: Apocalypse World citizens might suck it up if they detect that this pre-apocalypse softie doesn't have the guts and hardened cynizism to kill them outright.

Wow, I guess in-play experiences can really colour how one views a move like Disciplined Engagement; I've never considered it a "soft" move in situations like this... I saw it more as a brutal "To the pain." move.

Anyone else who has Dremmer at gunpoint, saying, "Tell me the access code or I'll blow your head off!" has to blow his head off when he says, "Fuck you, I ain't talking!"

The Q (or anyone else with this move) can just alter aim a little and blow off his right hand and say, "I'm gonna ask you one more time..." and still have a chance to get what they want... the PC has the discipline not to fly off the handle when initially thwarted... and it's a promise of "no easy out" of death when defying them.

I let the quarantine do 0-harm.  Who am I to neuter their move?  Together we make the fiction work.

0-harm is nifty. It's an attack that activates the harm move, but doesn't (by default) inflict any lasting injury.