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Author Topic: Level Up  (Read 12170 times)

Michael Pfaff

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Level Up
« on: June 16, 2011, 08:38:32 PM »
I just want to make sure I am doing this right.

According to the text, when you mark XP of your level times 10, you level up. When you level up, you erase your marked XP and start over.

So, does this mean you need:

current level 1 x 10 = 10 XP to reach level 2 (10 total XP earned)
current level 2 x 10 = 20 XP to reach level 3 (30 total XP earned)
current level 3 x 10 = 30 XP to reach level 4 (60 total XP earned)
etc...

?

You've noted that you earn 7-8 XP per session on average in your playtests. That means, you'll need to play roughly 10 sessions (70 XP) to reach level 4 right?

sage

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2011, 08:47:19 PM »
Yes, that's the idea. That said, XP/level is one of the most hack-friendly parts of the game. Tune it to your preferences.

The default reflects the D&D-style. You start our pretty fast, maybe even hitting second level in the first session. Then things slow down as you hit the groove of the game.

I think leveling can provide some early drive as the game builds, then as leveling slows down the game is already firing on all cylinders. Getting to cast more spells isn't as big a deal as finally getting your revenge on Vurther who you've been at odds with for several sessions. Sure, more spells helps that, but you're bought into the fiction pretty deeply.

Michael Pfaff

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2011, 08:48:19 PM »
Sweet. I just didn't want to be screwing my players over if it was supposed to be 10 XP, level, 10 XP, level, 10 XP, level, etc.


sage

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2011, 08:48:25 PM »
Forgot in my first post: I know of several groups doing a flat 10/level and having a great time. Especially if you want a shorter game, maybe focusing on one dungeon and the fallout from it, that's a great cadence.

mease19

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 08:49:08 PM »
One-shot vs campaign mode?

Michael Pfaff

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 08:49:16 PM »
Forgot in my first post: I know of several groups doing a flat 10/level and having a great time. Especially if you want a shorter game, maybe focusing on one dungeon and the fallout from it, that's a great cadence.

I think we'll try the default and then adjust as needed as you suggested.

sage

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 08:49:52 PM »
re:mease19 - I'm not sure I'd want to make it that explicit, but sure. Matter of taste, really.

John Harper

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 10:24:27 PM »
As long as we're talking about XP, I'll beat this drum again.

I hate highlighted stats as the XP method for this game. I did, I still do, I will later.

The game is dripping with AW mechanisms repurposed to express D&Disms in exciting ways. And then the highlighted stat thing, unchanged from AW, just flops there like a beached whale.

XP and leveling is, like, the thing from D&D! Every game after has copied it, but it was canonized there. It's really important. I think there's an insight to be shared here -- something that you and Adam know about D&D gaming and leveling that can be given a much better expression.

Me? I'd probably do something like Keys for each class (but done as a simple 5 item bullet list or something). Do all 5, level up. Or each one twice. Or whatever.

But that's me! That's not your insight. I bet you guys have one.

sage

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 10:32:29 PM »
Alignments are pretty much keys. No buyoffs, but along the same lines. If we did something more key-like, it would go there.

Do we need highlighted stats? Maybe not. That said, I don't think they're hurting anything.

Maybe we should do it via compels...

John Harper

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2011, 10:57:00 PM »
Sounds like lazy design to me.

"They're not hurting anything" ? Bah. I think they are.

Because of its heritage, the game has an underlying structure to the action (exploration, fights) that AW doesn't. Highlighted stats make sense in the wide open play of AW, but not in the dungeon-adventure structure of DW -- which of course heavily favors certain approaches and actions over others, simply by frequency, for starters.

Also, the content and meaning of improvement is different than AW's -- in several critical ways that tie directly into how XP is gained, and who has a say in that.

A simple port-over is missing the point and a big opportunity.

Now I've said my peace.

sage

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 11:00:47 PM »
Hey, John, you know what our plans are, right? There's one place we won't make any changes, since it's not like painfully broken, and one place we'll totally consider beefing up alignments. All I'm saying is: hey, good point, but not on our RIGHT NOW list (which is pretty long).

Everyone else: you'll understand soon.

sage

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2011, 11:11:23 PM »
Back with an actual alternate XP idea: Each class has 5 things they do to level up, but per level. So here's your five things for first level. Accomplished those? You're level 2! Here's 5 more.

It's kind of a cool idea for strong, fictional leveling. To prove yourself as a fighter you have to do these things.

It's a bookkeeping nightmare though.

John Harper

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2011, 11:18:45 PM »
A list of seven, do five of them. Or a list of 10 and do seven.

There could be a list of 10 for each alignment for that class.

sage

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2011, 11:28:33 PM »
Yeah, that's pretty much what I just emailed to Adam.

8 things per level. For each alignment the class allows, one is tagged with that alignment. Do 5 and you level.

Why 8? It's the smallest number (for space) that allows for not doing all of your options. 10 would be good, with the same constraints, but that's more space.

There's no way these would fit on the playbooks for all levels. There could be notecard-sized level sheets to track them, but who wants to print notecards? There could be an XP-playbook per class, but that's a whole 'nother thing to print per class.

Just having a master list per class, instead of per class per level, is easier, but could be a little repetitive. Also allows spamming one option.

Maybe one advancement playbook for everyone? With, say 20 options per level, with a few of those marked as class or class+alignment specific. It could even have multiple checkboxes next to each, so that every player can track their XP on the same sheet. Still kind of impractical, but having XP tracked in a shared space has some interesting social implications, much like physically taking XP for keys.

mease19

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Re: Level Up
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 01:27:29 AM »
Highlighted stats make sense in the wide open play of AW, but not in the dungeon-adventure structure of DW -- which of course heavily favors certain approaches and actions over others, simply by frequency, for starters.
I think the highlighted stats work in AW because the stats are ways of being.  You can highlight cool when you want them to be cool.  The stats in D&D/DW, on the other hand, qualities that characters posses inherently.  You can't tell someone that you want to see them be stronger, no matter what your bond.  

On the other hand, I like that highlighted stats challenge you to approach situations differently.

What if you got xp each time you make a character move?  That way you're rewarded for playing to your niche, the basic/advanced moves are stuff everyone is expected to do.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 01:16:49 PM by mease19 »