Author Topic: Sex Moves  (Read 11555 times)

Michael Pfaff

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Sex Moves
« on: June 30, 2010, 05:22:31 PM »
What's the purpose of these? Other than to encourage people to have sex in-game, is there an underlying intention here? To get PCs to interact or something?

And, what about replacing them? Would a Key-like replacement work? "When you do X mark experience." As an alternate way to mark experience.

Thoughts?

Elizabeth

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2010, 06:15:13 PM »
I wouldn't replace them with anything, personally. Sex moves are a huge part of the color of Apocalypse World.

Everything's about disconnection and decay, right? Your holding is your holding, and it's fucking dangerous to get to another place, and maybe those people will welcome you— but more likely than not, it's trouble. And everything that's left from the Golden Age is battered and broken and twisted or else it's just rubble. Nothing's the same.

The only ways you can really experience connection in Apocalypse World are Sex and Opening your Brain. And they're both super dangerous, right. But sex is the only thing besides bullets and gasoline that has made it through the apocalypse mostly in tact.

Michael Pfaff

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2010, 06:21:54 PM »
I wouldn't replace them with anything, personally. Sex moves are a huge part of the color of Apocalypse World.

Right.

Maybe I wasn't clear. This question is specifically for hacks of AW where sex isn't a huge part of the color.

Know what I mean?

When creating playbooks for the hack, taking out the Sex move feels like it leaves a big empty hole there. I want to fill it up with something else.

Elizabeth

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2010, 06:50:02 PM »
OHHHH, okay, I get it.

The thing about the sex move is that it gives players an incentive to throw their characters into situations they may not normally think about, and shakes up character relationships in new and interesting ways. Sam wrote an awesome AP on Story Games about how he was in this game and two burly, manly bikers ended up doin' it because that's what made the most mechanical sense, and how that affected the fiction.

So what are the main forms of connection in your hack? What's something you want to see characters do— not too often, but more often than they would if you didn't goad them? What rewards can you give them that will make it useful and uncomfortable?

Michael Pfaff

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 06:56:27 PM »
Exactly. I think the sex moves totally make sense in AW in the way you suggest and that's awesome.

However, like you said, it's about incentives to get the players to make choices with their characters. So, I'm thinking something like Keys where you mark history with another character (and get closer to XP) if you do something along the lines of your character playbook.

Do I have one specific thing I want all characters doing (like sex in AW)? Not really.
Do I want specific behaviors from specific characters? Sure.

Does that make sense?

tonydowler

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 07:01:04 PM »
I don't know if this helps, but here's an alternate point of view.

Apocalypse D&D doesn't have Hx, sex moves, or helping rules. I've never missed them, because they aren't really required to do what ApocD&D sets out to do.

That said, Hx, sex moves, and helping/hindering are some of the best parts of Apocalypse World, so if they port over to your hack, so much the better for you! I'd love to see what the sex moves are like in a game about Greek gods, for example, or mafia families.

Michael Pfaff

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 07:06:29 PM »
I don't know if this helps, but here's an alternate point of view.

Apocalypse D&D doesn't have Hx, sex moves, or helping rules. I've never missed them, because they aren't really required to do what ApocD&D sets out to do.

Yeah, I've considered this also. This may be the route I go if I can't come up with something catchy.

Thanks for the feedback.

Shreyas

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2010, 12:26:03 AM »
I personally think Keys are pretty dumb! Experience mechanics are broadly unified in, like, better games, so the characters don't tediously diverge.

Rather, think about Specials as moves. Everyone can open their brain; similarly everyone can have sex. Different folks get different things out of it! The thing you get from the Specials system is that it highlights how everyone's life experience is different. Skinners are followed around by drooly girls that have crushes on them; Brainers cruelly violate the privacy of those closest to them, etc.

So, I dunno, answer the question, "What makes this character's life experience different?" and choose a way to express that. You could make a move for sharing meals, or for, I dunno, taking a walk around town, or what have you.

Daniel Wood

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2010, 05:19:23 AM »

Duplicating something you already have a (pretty smooth) system for (experience) seems like it might just muddy things -- whereas for me the Special Moves are all about bringing a certain part of the game into focus. I like Shreyas' examples of sharing a meal, etc. -- you just gotta ruminate on the setting/fiction and hopefully pinpoint an activity that a) is not covered by the other moves, b) happens frequently enough to be important, but not all the damn time, and c) can act as a sort of counterpoint or additional layer in contrast with the primary moves.

Carl

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2010, 08:40:36 AM »
An idea inspired by a discussion with Mickey after GPNW:  For certain kinds of games, instead of sex moves, there are violence moves. Either:

When your character commits violence on another, <special move>.

For a very different feel, When your character suffers violence from another, <special move>.

The Preorder rules have the HX changes for inflicting or healing harm on another PC, but these would be different for each class.

Michael Pfaff

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2010, 12:43:15 PM »
You guys are great. This is exactly the feedback I needed.

Carl, that might fit perfectly with what I'm working on.

Thanks so much guys. This has helped to focus me a bit more.

J. Walton

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Re: Sex Moves
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2010, 06:14:27 PM »
I like the violence moves a lot.  Seems like there could be alternatives to sex that are personal and in some way violating, in that they get around a lot of the armor that characters (and players!) sometimes build around themselves.  Moves like that could at least occupy the same kind of narrative space in the game.

Like:
- When you tell someone / demonstrate how you really feel
- When you demonstrate compassion
- When you kill
- When you ask for help
- When you admit defeat
- When you trespass against someone
- When you violate your own expectations for yourself
- When you let a mortal enemy live
- When you dance with someone

Obviously there could be other moves that do other things, but then they just become new moves, rather than building on the lessons of sex moves, yeah?