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brainstorming & development / Re: Escape the Dungeon
« Last post by Spwack on Today at 01:43:17 PM »
Exactly, you've hit the nail on the head there.
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I still think freedom isn't the Driver's "thing" or else the Driver's freedom wouldn't be a hindrance from the sex move. Freedom should be revelatory, not anxiety-ridden. Or maybe it should have the freedom to be either, but the Driver playbook makes your interpretation of freedom almost obligatory.

The Driver is Driven: Is she charging into danger, or running from herself?   :)

I'll have to play as a Driver in the next game. I've got one in my heavily influenced Utopia game, but that's not close enough mechanically for true comparisons. That player ended up using the environment a lot though, most notably by using his knightrider like bike to catch a monorail train that was falling down the outside of a skyscraper, and a second time where he used a mammoth pileup (caused by the Gunlugger) as a ramp to launch himself, snagging a wrecked bus and swinging it into the warlord firing grenades at them before crashing into a skyscraper himself.

I think that's maybe it. More than other playbooks, the Driver brings a sense of spectacle. If they want to be effective, they need to escalate, accelerate, make the jumps, stunts and explosions bigger until the others are left behind. They need to bring the situation up to their level and then beat everyone.
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brainstorming & development / Re: Escape the Dungeon
« Last post by cromlyngames on Today at 11:01:52 AM »
I can see that working very well with the right, slightly drunk, people. Anyone who knows the rules of a moshpit basically.

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brainstorming & development / Re: Escape the Dungeon
« Last post by Spwack on Today at 04:56:27 AM »
Not to hijack or anything, but here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kBtnnDeZDeYX2IYV1x5rktykgoEvxQKecJLxK3yOI0Y/edit?usp=sharing

It's a mix of introducing the starting rules, getting some roleplaying going, and just stirring shit. Looking back at it, the Angel card is literally just a 12+ roll of an advanced Read a Sitch. Which is kind of interesting.

Oh, and the Gunlugger card? That gives me a lever. If they are being interesting, that extra NPC just exists, and is an Ally (probably Lover or Confidante depending). If they are being kinda boring, I have them be taken hostage. However, if I'm feeling super cruel and I feel they can take it, this happens immediately -

“Well guess what, they’re fucking dead at your feet.“

To a non-violent character (Angel, Savvyhead or Driver):

“How’d they die huh? Shotgun or axe to the face? Electrocuted? Were they tortured before they died? Come on, give me something to work with. No no, I’m not blaming you for it. You just know something. Well, in that case, pick a number from 2 to 5. Yeah, they’re on your doorstep in [X] different pieces."

“And you know who did this?”

Point at a violent character (Faceless, Chopper, Battlebabe):

“They fucking did this. Did you do this? Did one of your guys do this? Then who fucking did it?”

“Gunlugger, it’s time to make a choice: Who’s to blame here?”


And remember: If they don’t give a shit, which is completely acceptable, the Maelstrom brings them back.


Didn't get an opportunity to try it. But still, it looks good on paper.


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If I were to give a Driver a "thing" I'd probably focus away the cars and give him instead a "Name". Play into Reputation, let them use their name like currency. Cause, you know. Some people, when the world goes to hell just fly on by and everyone else is just left going. Cool.
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What I meant is, feel free to hate it, hack the old one back, etc. I don't think you need to like the driver, much like I don't need to like or appreciate the rock and roll crap-noise-thing in the alternative play books. Only reason I kept going after that line is that if Vincent reads this, I wanted him to know I love it.

So like what you want, hate what you want. Driver has plenty of things, and if you and your player cannot figure out what he wants his to be, then, maybe a brain storming session is due.

IMO some of the play books just come with a lot of noise.
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Apocalypse World / Re: the Driver has lost their "thing"
« Last post by nerdwerds on July 26, 2017, 11:35:34 PM »
Sorry, further comments in the other thread since it was there first.
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Before, the Driver was a handicapped cheat. Things were too easy behind the wheel, and there was nothing once he stepped outside the car.
That was never my experience with it. I played a Driver and got screwed on many of my rolls, also the only character I ever played who died (in his car even).

No. I dont think I need to persuade anyone.
Abjectly false statement since you typed out a response.

The Drivers moves now let him be whoever he wants to be. It lets the player decide how they wanna roll, and if that's locale, then so be it. Reputation, Escape, Big ass toys; It's fucking awesome. Driver decided he wants some heavy fucking machinery to do construction work around town, deciding he's part of say a savvy heads agarage and they're do big things here. Fuck yeah, it's what I've got to say. No savvy head? Meh, still all the same, just pick up your own workshop through the moves and do it that way.
This sounds more like it. You make a good point, the Driver does have a bit more freedom now that the Operator's moves have been handed over to the playbook.

I still think freedom isn't the Driver's "thing" or else the Driver's freedom wouldn't be a hindrance from the sex move. Freedom should be revelatory, not anxiety-ridden. Or maybe it should have the freedom to be either, but the Driver playbook makes your interpretation of freedom almost obligatory.
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The Driver has lost their "thing" - they used to be a badass behind the whell of any vehicle but now they feel like the most generic of playbooks.

I'm not seeing a lot of reasons in this thread for what makes the Driver so special - using the rules themselves.
"The Driver is mobile"
"The Driver is a loner"
"The Driver makes the world larger"
These are unique perspectives based on what people played and how they interpret the playbook, but not how the playbook is written.

I've got a Driver in one of my current games and he has literally never left the town he started in and he has spent all his time putting down roots and making a name for himself. Every single thing people define Drivers as in this thread is refuted by this one player (who has also never played AW before and so he's not coming to the game with baggage or preconceptions of *how* he's supposed to play a Driver). Yet, he is also kind of shafted because the other players (a Brainer, a Hocus, a News, a Maestro d' and a Savvyhead) all have their "things" that make them special. Starting with a vehicle didn't even make the Driver in this game special because both my Brainer and Savvyhead asked to start with vehicles, and now the Hocus has even managed to acquire a bus for his family.

I'm tempted to just give the Driver combat driver for free since that's the most driver-y move, and he's managed to avoid taking it simply because he hasn't gone anywhere and he has no compelling reasons to. Believe me I've tried to lure him out, but he's a single-minded player.

I hated the Driver playbook before. Now it's one of my favorite. So... disagree. :)
Your entire post here is weighed down with how you perceive the playbook. As I said in the other thread, personal preference doesn't carry any weight with me. I would really like to know what the 2nd ed version has for you that the 1st ed doesn't.

Almost makes me wish we had some version of the Moonlighting move to handle the type of person who gets their hands into all kinds of pots...
I'm gonna write one.

Paul, a question. The Driver isn't the only immensely mobile playbook. Do you have similar issues with the Chopper?
The Chopper also starts with a decent Cool, there is very little separating the two mechanically. One starts with a car, the other starts with a bike (and a gang).

I feel like a Driver who spends a whole game without driving the car around would be... somewhat disappointing, at the very least.

...

With the Driver, I'm not sure what the focus IS, except for "I have a cool car and I don't like being tied down."
The player of my aforementioned Driver has expressed dismay that his "thing" is that he starts with a car. He's mentioned several times that he wishes he started with a different playbook because he doesn't see what the appeal of the Driver is since there are other characters that started with vehicles, and he thought starting with a car would make him more unique. (He added a prosthetic to his character to give him an extra layer of coolness: a laser eye that he uses to spy on people whenever he opens his brain.)
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Apocalypse World / Re: the Driver has lost their "thing"
« Last post by Ebok on July 26, 2017, 11:20:32 PM »
The playbook is whatever you make it. Before, the Driver was a handicapped cheat. Things were too easy behind the wheel, and there was nothing once he stepped outside the car. Sorry man, the basis of your argument is that the driver class EVER added anything major to the game, and really that just isn't so. None of his moves expanded the world, none of his shit had any influence unless the MC made it so it did. Gunlugger takes a motorcycle and the driver's as dead as the next guy.

So... No. I dont think I need to persuade anyone.

The Drivers moves now let him be whoever he wants to be. It lets the player decide how they wanna roll, and if that's locale, then so be it. Reputation, Escape, Big ass toys; It's fucking awesome. Driver decided he wants some heavy fucking machinery to do construction work around town, deciding he's part of say a savvy heads agarage and they're do big things here. Fuck yeah, it's what I've got to say. No savvy head? Meh, still all the same, just pick up your own workshop through the moves and do it that way.

You wanna have combat driver? It's badass. Really damn powerful in the right circumstances without fucking up the balance of your stats, or demanding the driver be some handicapped dude anywhere else.

The Maelstrom can be anything, but yet we still manage to make it cool. Why's it so hard to do that with a guy that can fly in any vehicle he wants? Nothing wrong with telling the gunlugger looking at a plane he's got no fucking idea how to move it, land it, whatever. Got a driver? Well shit, that could open up worlds of opportunity. You wanna make a guy that can drive anything awesome, present opportunities to do it. You don't? Still one of the top 3 playbooks for me, precisely because it doesnt carry so much conceptual baggage, and you can do fucking anything with it.

You think cars and trucks or whatever are all over, so what makes a driver's special? Simple, he's got choices the others dont. He gets what he wants, the rest only get what shit is already falling apart here. Also, he got all the best moves out of Operator, and that is damned cool too.
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